Sunday 11 May 2008

Debating With a Skepster

I came across a brilliant webpage the other day which put into words something I've been thinking for a long time. I like to wrangle and often take my debate to the enemy, the Skeptic Movement, and if you visit the HPANWO forum (See links column) you'll see that they often bring theirs to me! By the way, the reason I always spell the word "Skeptic" in the American way with a k, rather than a c and a lower case s is that for me the two word forms have very different meanings. The word "sceptic" simply means someone who disbelieves, whereas the word "Skeptic" refers to a member of a socio-polticial movement that promotes conventional science, philosophical materialism and upholds the naturalist viewpoint.:

Ever get into an argument with a skeptic only to end up exasperated and feeling you've been bamboozled? Skeptics are often highly skilled at tying up opponents in clever verbal knots. Most skeptics are, of course, ordinary, more-or-less honest people who, like the rest of us, are just trying to make the best sense they can of a complicated and often confusing world. Others, however, are merely glib sophists who use specious reasoning to defend their prejudices or attack the ideas and beliefs of others, and even an honest skeptic can innocently fall into the mistake of employing bad reasoning. In reading, listening to and sometimes debating skeptics over the years, I've found certain tricks, ploys and gimmicks which they tend to use over and over again. Here are some of 'em. Perhaps if you keep them in mind when arguing with a skeptic, you'll feel better when the debate is over. Shucks, you might even score a point or two.

1.) RAISING THE BAR (Or IMPOSSIBLE PERFECTION): This trick consists of demanding a new, higher and more difficult standard of evidence whenever it looks as if a skeptic's opponent is going to satisfy an old one. Often the skeptic doesn't make it clear exactly what the standards are in the first place. This can be especially effective if the skeptic can keep his opponent from noticing that he is continually changing his standard of evidence. That way, his opponent will eventually give up in exasperation or disgust. Perhaps best of all, if his opponent complains, the skeptic can tag him as a whiner or a sore loser. Skeptic: I am willing to consider the psi hypothesis if you will only show me some sound evidence. Opponent: There are many thousands of documented reports of incidents that seem to involve psi. S: That is only anecdotal evidence. You must give me laboratory evidence. 0: Researchers A-Z have conducted experiments that produced results which favor the psi hypothesis. S: Those experiments are not acceptable because of flaws X,Y andZ. 0: Researchers B-H and T-W have conducted experiments producing positive results which did not have flaws X,Y and Z. S: The positive results are not far enough above chance levels to be truly interesting. 0: Researchers C-F and U-V produced results well above chance levels. S: Their results were achieved through meta-analysis, which is a highly questionable technique. O: Meta-analysis is a well-accepted method commonly used in psychology and sociology. S: Psychology and sociology are social sciences, and their methods can't be considered as reliable as those of hard sciences such as physics and chemistry. Etc., etc. ad nauseum.

2.) SOCK 'EM WITH OCCAM: Skeptics frequently invoke Occam's Razor as if the Razor automatically validates their position. Occam's Razor, a principle of epistemology (knowledge theory), states that the simplest explanation which fits all the facts is to be preferred -- or, to state it another way, entities are not to be multiplied needlessly. The Razor is a useful and even necessary principle, but it is largely useless if the facts themselves are not generally agreed upon in the first place.

3.) EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS: Extraordinary claims, says the skeptic, require extraordinary evidence. Superficially this seems reasonable enough. However, extraordinariness, like beauty, is very much in the eye of the beholder. Some claims, of course, would seem extraordinary to almost anyone (e.g. the claim that aliens from Alpha Centauri had contacted you telepathically and informed you that the people of Earth must make you their absolute lord and ruler). The "extraordinariness" of many other claims, however, is at best arguable, and it is not at all obvious that unusually strong evidence is necessary to support them. For example, so many people who would ordinarily be considered reliable witnesses have reported precognitive dreams that it becomes difficult to insist these are "unusual" claims requiring "unusual" evidence. Quite ordinary standards of evidence will do.

4.) STUPID, CRAZY LIARS: This trick consists of simple slander.Anyone who reports anything which displeases the skeptic will be accused of incompetence, mental illness or dishonesty, or some combination of the three without a single shred of fact to support the accusations. When Charles Honorton's Ganzfeld experiments produced impressive results in favor of the psi hypothesis, skeptics accused him of suppressing or not publishing the results of failed experiments. No definite facts supporting the charge ever emerged. Moreover, the experiments were extremely time consuming, and the number of failed, unpublished experiments necessary to make the number of successful, published experiments significant would have been quite high, so it is extremely unlikely that Honorton's results could be due to selective reporting. Yet skeptics still sometimes repeat this accusation.

5.) THE SANTA CLAUS GAMBIT: This trick consists of lumping moderate claims or propositions together with extreme ones. If you suggest, for example, that Sasquatch can't be completely ruled out from the available evidence, the skeptic will then facetiously suggest that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny can't be "completely" ruled out either.

6.) SHIFTING THE BURDEN OF EVIDENCE: The skeptic insists that he doesn't have to provide evidence and arguments to support his side of the argument because he isn't asserting a claim, he is merely denying or doubting yours. His mistake consists of assuming that a negative claim (asserting that something doesn't exist) is fundamentally different from a positive claim. It isn't. Any definite claim, positive or negative, requires definite support. Merely refuting or arguing against an opponent's position is not enough to establish one's own position.. In other words, you can't win by default. As arch-skeptic Carl Sagan himself said, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If someone wants to rule out visitations by extra-terrestrial aliens, it would not be enough to point out that all the evidence presented so far is either seriously flawed or not very strong. It would be necessary to state definite reasons which would make ET visitations either impossible or highly unlikely. (He might, for example, point out that our best understanding of physics pretty much rules out any kind of effective faster-than-light drive.) The only person exempt from providing definite support is the person who takes a strict "I don't know" position or the agnostic position. If someone takes the position that the evidence in favor of ET visitations is inadequate but goes no farther, he is exempt from further argument (provided, of course, he gives adequate reasons for rejecting the evidence). However, if he wants to go farther and insist that it is impossible or highly unlikely that ET's are visiting or have ever visited the Earth, it becomes necessary for him to provide definite reasons for his position. He is no longer entitled merely to argue against his opponent's position. There is the question of honesty. Someone who claims to take the agnostic position but really takes the position of definite disbelief is, of course, misrepresenting his views. For example, a skeptic who insists that he merely believes the psi hypothesis is inadequately supported when in fact he believes that the human mind can only acquire information through the physical senses is simply not being honest.

7.) YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE: The skeptic may insist that he is relieved of the burden of evidence and argument because "you can't prove a negative." But you most certainly can prove a negative! When we know one thing to be true, then we also know that whatever flatly contradicts it is untrue. If I want to show my cat's not in the bedroom, I can prove this by showing that my cat's in the kitchen or outside chasing squirrels. The negative has then been proven. Or the proposition that the cat is not in the bedroom could be proven by giving the bedroom a good search without finding the cat. The skeptic who says, "Of course I can't prove psi doesn't exist. I don't have to. You can't prove a negative," is simply wrong. To rule something out, definite reasons must be given for ruling it out. Of course, for practical reasons it often isn't possible to gather the necessary information to prove or disprove a proposition, e.g., it isn't possible to search the entire universe to prove that no intelligent extraterrestrial life exists. This by itself doesn't mean that a case can't be made against the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, although it does probably mean that the case can't be as air-tight and conclusive as we would like.

8.) THE BIG LIE: The skeptic knows that most people will not have the time or inclination to check every claim he makes, so he knows it's a fairly small risk to tell a whopper. He might, for example, insist that none of the laboratory evidence for psi stands up to close scrutiny, or he might insist there have been no cases of UFO's being spotted by reliable observers such as trained military personnel when in fact there are well-documented cases. The average person isn't going to scamper right down to the library to verify this, so the skeptic knows a lot of people are going to accept his statement at face value. This ploy works best when the Big Lie is repeated often and loudly in a confident tone.

9.) DOUBT CASTING: This trick consists of dwelling on minor or trivial flaws in the evidence, or presenting speculations as to how the evidence might be flawed as though mere speculation is somehow as damning as actual facts. The assumption here is that any flaw, trivial or even merely speculative, is necessarily fatal and provides sufficient grounds for throwing out the evidence. The skeptic often justifies this with the "extraordinary evidence" ploy. In the real world, of course, the evidence for anything is seldom 100% flawless and foolproof. It is almost always possible to find some small shortcoming which can be used as an excuse for tossing out the evidence. If a definite problem can't be found, then the skeptic may simply speculate as to how the evidence*might* be flawed and use his speculations as an excuse to discard the information. For example, the skeptic might point out that the safeguards or controls during one part of a psi experiment weren't quite as tight as they might have been and then insist, without any supporting facts, that the subject(s) and/or the researcher(s) probably cheated because this is the "simplest" explanation for the results (see "Sock 'em with Occam" and "Extraordinary Claims"; "Raising the Bar" is also relevant).

10.) THE SNEER: This gimmick is an inversion of "Stupid, Crazy Liars." In "Stupid, Crazy Liars," the skeptic attacks the character of those advocating certain ideas or presenting information in the hope of discrediting the information. In "THE SNEER," the skeptic attempts to attach a stigma to some idea or claim and implies that anyone advocating that position must have something terribly wrong with him. "Anyone who believes we've been visited by extraterrestrial aliens must be a lunatic, a fool, or a con man. If you believe this, you must a maniac, a simpleton or a fraud." The object here is to scare others away from a certain position without having to discuss facts. * * * To be fair, some of these tricks or tactics (such as "The Big Lie," "Doubtcasting" and "The Sneer") are often used by believers as well as skeptics. Scientifc Creationists and Holocaust Revisionists, for example, are particularly prone to use "Doubtcasting." Others ploys, however, such as "Sock 'em with Occam" and "Extraordinary Claims," are generally used by skeptics and seldom by others. Unfortunately, effective debating tactics often involve bad logic, e.g. attacking an opponent's character, appeals to emotion, mockery and facetiousness, loaded definitions, etc. And certainly skeptics are not the only ones who are ever guilty of using manipulative and deceptive debating tactics. Even so, skeptics are just as likely as anyone else to twist their language, logic and facts to win an argument, and keeping these tricks in mind when dealing with skeptics may very well keep you from being bamboozled.

When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend.


I could add another one to the list (If readers can think of any more then please post them in the comments box or on the forum): Skepsters like to bait and inflame. They'll be rude and aggressive as a deliberate tactic to try and get you to retaliate and therefore leave the topic of the debate and, with any luck, get you banned from a forum. If you look at the HPANWO forum you'll see probably the most extreme example of this that you're likely to find! If the Skepsters were so sure of their argument I don't think they'd act like this. I think they're shooting the messengers because they can't shoot the message!

I've made a decision today: I'm going to write a book about the Skeptic Movement. There are plenty of books about "Woo's" written from the Skeptics' persepctive, like Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Crazy Things, and James Randi's Flim-Flam, but I don't think anyone's ever written a book about Skeptics from the position of conspiracy theorists and paranormal-believers like me. I'll have to go along to some of these Skeppie events like "Skeptics in the Pub" to do some research. Shame I missed the chance to see James Randi live last month. This is a book that will take me a long time to write because I'll only be able to do a little bit of work on it at a time, otherwise it would drive me nuts!

Here's a list of Skepster forums:


Alex Robinson said...

Well done Ben, we're well overdue some good common sense in this field. I don't bother with 'skeptics' anymore it's a waste of my valuable time & energy :)
I have used the analogy of a ping pong game for a while now - you say something & they hit it back at you, if you take the bait the game is on - and it IS a game & they'll play it for as long as you return 'the ball' - I think that in some way they can emotionally feed off our frustration - it energises them, but the question is, is that where you want your energy to go.
Good luck for your new book.

Ben Emlyn-Jones said...

Thanks, WW. I assure you, I have no intention of wasting any more energy on this project than is necessary; and by definition that's not going to be much, for the sake of my own sanity! But it is a story that needs to be told I think.

The fact that the name of the game is this kind of emotional leeching, shows that the Skeptic Movement is not about the truth or proving what is right or not. It's about the promition of a particular dogma, in this case the left-brain rationalist one. This is going to be the central theme of my book.

Regan Lee said...

Whoooo boy, you said it! Good for you. Boy, I've been there done that.

I put a link to this post of yours on my own "anti skeptic" blog: Snarly Skepticism:


Ben Emlyn-Jones said...

Thanks, Regan. I've read that article you link to on Randi by Skylaire Alfregan before when it was reported on Says it all really!

Lippard said...

There have been a number of papers and books about skeptics from a believer's perspective, such as George Hansen's "CSICOP and the Skeptics: An Overview." There have also been some articles and papers written from a sociological or anthropological perspective, including Stephanie Hall's 2000 paper "Folklore and the Rise of Moderation Among Organized Skeptics" and David J. Hess's 1993 book, _Science in the New Age: The Paranormal, Its Defenders and Debunkers, and American Culture_.

I've got a collection of online material critical of "organized skepticism" or the "skeptical movement" here:

Ben Emlyn-Jones said...

That's very interesting. Thanks, Jim. I'll have a look through.

If someone else has written such a book then it may save me having to do it myself! I can write something I really want to instead!

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Anonymous said...

ive seen alot of use of the term 'evidence' in your anti debunk cookbook. but it appears you class goverment and military witnesses as being credible beyond doubt.
have you noticed that halt, penistown and his pal are thrown into the publics eye over and over again. it gets massive coverage on tv shows. it almost always links to "expert ex mod ufo guru nick pope" who is also a pro conspiracy therist dispite citing the official 9/11 nist report as being the truth.
(the 2nd plane doing 560mph at 700ft is not possible. and that is fact)
but he loves to play audio taped (would air force personnel use their own tape recoder? doubtful. also doubtful he would return by himself the next morning to make casts of the claimed lqnding marks.
nick pope is an expert at getting into almost any alien based tv show, his webpage talks about him and his none stop media ufo endevours.

a coverup? they make it out to be before ramming it down your throat.
ufo belief helps create beliefs in things in other areas that they want belief in..